ICW: David Harewood

Last month I got to sit down with the wonderful David Harewood to discuss his book Maybe I Don't Belong Here: A Memoir of Race, Identity, Breakdown and Recovery, which is out in paperback form tomorrow (October 13th). It’s one of my favourite ICW’s I’ve done, when our time was up I felt I could have kept talking with him for an age. I hope when you finish reading this, you’re left wanting more too! If you are, head here to grab yourself a copy of the book!

Brianna (TBP)

Hi David. How are you doing, how has this press tour been going? 

David Harewood

Good. It's really exciting. It's nice to be going again. I think last time it was sort of mid-COVID. Strange to be doing it all on Zoom again, it would be nice to be sitting down somewhere drinking alcohol but it's good. It's great. It's great to be sort of back out on the road again.

Brianna (TBP)

Amazing! So I usually ask this question last - I pretty much only interview Black people on my platform and I always finish with this question. But reading the book, this question kept jumping out at me, and that question is What does being Black mean to you?

David Harewood

What does being Black mean to me? Wow. It means being a part of a legacy which has historically had to fight. It's had to fight to gain attention. It's had to overcome. It's had to inspire. It's had to continually reinvent. I'm proud to be a member of this chosen group. But it's being part of a legacy. For me it's being part of a story, part of a legacy of overcoming obstacles, overcoming historical hurdles. But for me it's also about being a part of a rich, a very, very rich history, and a very, very rich culture. So, yeah, I'm a proud paid up member of that community.

Brianna (TBP)

It's so interesting that that is how you choose to describe it, because so much of what you just described in historical terms, you've had to do in your own personal journey.

David Harewood

I think everybody does. I think everyone, in their own way, face challenges. And I think that's what the book points to, is how we each have to be incredibly mentally strong just to survive. You know, not even to thrive, just to survive. And I think that speaks to just how much mental pressure there is on most black people everyday, sometimes without us even knowing. We all are victims of a thousand cuts a day, and some of us rise above it. But, you know, sometimes the struggle gets too real and gets too heavy. And it's not surprising that Black people are so over represented in the mental health system. Because it does get tough to deal with the constant onslaught. But,you know, we rise above and continue to thrive.

Brianna (TBP)

I 100% agree, so much of what you said in this book really resonated with me. You spoke about feeling like a guest in Britain at one point in the book - and if anything I ask is too much or you don't want to speak on it, please just say - but I was wondering if leaving Britain helped you find a better sense of self? Did it positively impact your mental health and identity?

David Harewood

Without a doubt. I think having had some success in America, being recognised the way that I have been recognised, and rewarded for the talent that I have, has greatly benefitted me as an individual. But also as an artist, you know to be given the responsibility to play central leading characters, which is something that I struggled with here. To then be given the responsibility to direct episodes, is again something that I was never ever given here. So I would say yes, 100% I have benefited greatly from it. My whole horizons expanded a lot. Now I'm not saying it's a simple equation, America is a very different country and has it's own problems. And there are issues within my journey to America that haven't quite been straightforward and simple. But without a doubt I think gaining success there and being recognised there greatly benefited my mental health, my confidence, my art, and my outlook on life. And I just thank the heavens for that. Because, you know Britain - although I appreciate it - it's given me that perspective. I don't think it always recognises the talents of those who contribute to the British whole. I think it can sometimes be difficult to punch through. Psychologically, and I talk psychologically because so much of my book takes place in my childhood. But, you know, when you're told as a five year old nearly every other day to go back to where you came from, I think psychologically that's had some sort of wounding effect on my psyche. And I've worked hard on myself to overcome that. But I can't deny that it's had a lasting effect.

Brianna (TBP)

I wanted to ask, speaking of lasting effects. You mention in the book that because of your experiences growing up, the sight of the Union Jack still gets your back up a bit, still puts you on edge. How has this mourning period been for you, seeing them everywhere?

David Harewood

You know one has to respect Elizabeth and respect her time on the throne and respect what she's done to the institution. But there is another story to Empire, there is another story to British glory which monarchy represents. And perhaps it's not - these last 10 days haven't been the time to express it and dig into it, because people are obviously upset and very emotional. But there is a reckoning now, I mean right through the commonwealth, where those that were once subjects are sort of saying "let's renegotiate this relationship." And that's fair enough because historically - I did a documentary a few years ago called 1000 years a slave where I traced my own family roots back to Barbados. And speaking to a historian in Barbados, one learns that on every slave that was sold, the monarch took taxes. So they earnt money off slavery. So it's a complicated picture, of course one I've been respectful, and to an extent mournful for. But at the same time, you know, that's the conflict that's going on inside me as a Black Briton. That whilst I can wave that flag, and cheer, and stand in line, and sort of bow down; in the eyes of many I'll never truly be part of that club. And I know that, and I'm okay with that, I've made my peace with that. I can be respectful at the same time but there's more to the story when it comes to being mournful.

Brianna (TBP)

Definitely. It's a very nuanced thing isn't it? I think once this time of mourning is over, I'm going to be interested to see what conversations come, and what change might happen.

David Harewood

I'm not sure that - I mean look, people hold very fixed views. As far as many people are concerned British History is one of glory, and success. Many people look beyond the oppression, the brutality, and they're not interested in seeing it any other way. And that's a problem.

Brianna (TBP)

It is. Do you think we can address the statistics talked about in your book about Black oversaturation in the mental health system, if we don't address the legacy of - not just Monarchy because Parliament has had more power since around 1650 - but Britain and it's politics and it's history? Can we fix the now without addressing the then do you think?

David Harewood

I think we're going to have to try to as the country progresses. And look, I notice not just here in Britain but also in America, this desire in certain sections of the population to sort of tamp down any discussion of history. That section of the community only wants to talk about it's glory, and it doesn't want to engage on the more uncomfortable subjects of Empire - slavery, oppression, subjugation, brutality - they don't really want to engage on those subjects. And you know, in America now they're burning books. They're saying you can't, you certainly can't teach children certain subjects, you can't teach children about slavery. And I Think that's dangerous. Very, very dangerous. But it also shows that there's this truth out there, and it's not really being spoken about. I think it's going to take a lot of brave people standing up. I think since George Floyd's murder there has been some debate, or some dialogue. And I think there are now perhaps more allies, white allies than perhaps we have had before. But there's still a hardcore who do not want to engage with that conversation. And I think that's Increasingly going to be a problem, because when you don't talk about it, that's when people feel even more marginalised.

Brianna (TBP)

I definitely agree, and it leads nicely into my next question. In the book you spoke about feeling a sense of not belonging in the white space, but also that when you moved out of Birmingham and to London, out of drama school, you also felt that a little bit in the Black space. How did you navigate that, how did you find your feet and a sense of belonging? Could you talk us through that journey?

David Harewood

It's a good question. You know, I think partly that was as a result of me speaking the way I do. Ever just being an actor I was told I was being too white, the way that I speak was not Black enough. And that has often been an internal struggle. But,you know, as you get older you sort of become happy with yourself and you settle with yourself, and there's also the work I've done on myself. This struggle is constant, and it's something that I have to constantly work on. I still talk about these subjects in therapy, but I think you have to continue to work on yourself. And it's not that I have reached a sort of point of Nirvana where I'm sort of this happy individual. But I'm happier than I was, and more balanced than I was, and more comfortable then I was. And I think that just comes to accepting who you are. At some point you've got to accept one you are, and accept that a certain section of the community - not everyone is going to like you, not everyone is going to accept you. And I have accepted that. But at the same time it's important not to pull up the drawbridge and think that my experiences aren't the same as other people's experiences. It's a constant dialogue within yourself, but it just takes constant work to make sure that you are at ease with yourself, happy with yourself, content with yourself. And many people aren't, but I think I've done probably more work than most in being happy in whatever space you are. The black space, any space, I just try and take my own sense of self wherever I go now. And I'm probably feeling more comfortable with myself than I have been at any point in my life. Which is a good thing I think.

Brianna (TBP)

Yeah, it's really lovely to hear. Because you're such a talented man and my family adore you. So reading this book and hearing -

David Harewood

The whole family? 

Brianna (TBP)

Yeah, like me, my mum, my sister. My sister enjoys the DC shows so Super Girl, my mum loves Homeland, I'm a big Shakespeare fan. So you are on all of our radars. So to hear that you'd had such a hard time in your younger years, I was so upset for you, but to hear now that you're in such a good place and you're much happier than you have been, I'm delighted for you.

David Harewood

I think it takes you know, I think every journey needs a little detour. You have to have your failures to have your success, you've got to have your tough times to recognise and appreciate the good times. And I try to tell this to all young kids that, you know, don't be afraid of failure, or don't be afraid of the hard times, the hard times, make you who you are. And I think I'm lucky that I came through those experiences, but it's made me who I am today. And tough times, hard times are necessary. You know, things are forged in fire, the toughest metal is forged in fire. So I, there's no way of getting through this life scrape free, you're gonna need a few bruises to make you who you are. So that experience has made me resilient. And it's made me as I say, work on myself, to accept who I am. I wouldn't have changed it for the world.

Brianna (TBP)

That's amazing. But two more questions, we've got three minutes left. So the first of those is, you spoke about how, in your younger years, as you were starting out, the reviews would refer to you as a black actor. And you would be like, Excuse me? Why am I not just an actor? Taking into account your kind of experience growing up not seeing someone like you in entertainment, does the idea that young boys, young girls might see you on screen and not feel a question of can I belong here? Does that make being called the black actor sit a little bit easier?

David Harewood

Yes, yeah, of course. But you know, we're seeing this now in Lord of the Rings, you know, we're seeing people kind of complaining. We've seen people complain that, you know, Ariel, a mermaid, a cartoon mermaid is black. So you're always going to have some people resist, you're always going to have some people have a problem with it. But that shouldn't stop us from feeling happy, and content in that space. And all the young kids that are going to grow up, see themselves, see me on the screen. I'm amazed the amount of young kids who say to me, "Oh, I watched you when I was at school, and now I'm an actor, and thank you." So it's great that I was a bit of an inspiration for all the young kids who are gonna watch that moment, you know, aerial film and, and see a young black, all the young black girls are gonna watch and be inspired by it. And let's not even think about the trolls and racism, don't care. It's not even about them. It's about the people who are going to be inspired by it. So I am just glad that black people are now in spaces that they want, struggled to be in. And I think that's, that's scary. But you know, where we are going to have backlash, too.

Brianna (TBP)

And we're gonna finish on a little bit of a lighter note. We are going to see you back on stage in November. Could you tell us a little bit about what to expect in Best of Enemies? 

David Harewood

It's a very intelligent, very funny evening in the theatre. I play a white conservative, which is something I thought I would never, I would never see myself as but somehow it works. And you end up - it's a battle of ideas. It's a very funny battle of ideas, and you end up agreeing with the person that you might not think you would normally agree with. I won't give too much away. But it's a real evening of challenging ideas. And visually because I am a person of colour, it's amazing how much you will find yourself agreeing with somebody who politically you might not have thought you’d agree with.

Brianna (TBP)

Interesting, you have piqued my interest. Thank you so much for your time, and I hope the rest of this goes swimmingly for you. And the book is amazing. Thank you so much for sharing such an open part of your soul with us.

David Harewood

Thank you very much. Thanks for your brilliant questions. Well done!